Some thoughts on SC6

This text is written mainly for Lucebuce, who wanted some character info to stew over for the upcoming SC6 release. I'm not the best or most knowledgeable SC player by any means so YMMV on stuff, but I thought I'd write something down regardless. Hope it's useful to someone out there. 
 

Soul Calibur compared to Tekken

*Execution requirements are generally lower. Some characters still have hard stuff of course, but in general combos and movement are easier.
*Frame data varies more between characters.For example, in Tekken, almost everyone has a 10f jab and that is almost always their fastest move. df1's are almost always some of your fastest mids regardless of character and they are 13 or 14f. It is less homogenous in SC.
*In general, range has a more pronounced effect on gameplay. It doesn't matter if they are -16, if your <17f moves can't reach them. This situation is very common in SC, while it is somewhat rare in Tekken.
*Crushing is less prominent in SC. To be fair, ducking under highs or jumping over lows is very common, but it's not like in Tekken where practically every character has a launching hopkick and lots of characters have a knockdown or launching highcrush move.
*Lows are generally pretty weak in SC. They're slow, risky, unrewarding or several of these. Lows do appear to be better in SC6 compared to SC5, so who knows how this will pan out. There are also no hopkicks or low parries to explode you for going for a low, so the risk/reward is different in general.

On characters

We generally don't know that much about how any characters are going to be in SC6, but here's a short overview of strong and weak points they have had historically/seem to have in SC6. Keep in mind this is very early, so on some points I'm basically making no more than vaguely educated guesses. I may update as we get closer to release, or even post release.

Mitsurugi
+High damage
+Good speed and range on his buttons
+Good mixups
+Strong stances
- Fairly unsafe

Mitsurugi is a well-rounded, aggressive character with high damage. He hits like a truck and doesn't give up much for it. His stances are surprisingly evasive, which lets him keep the pressure on in ways that are hard to deal with. Recommended for beginners.

Sophitia
+Fast movement
+Great block and whiff punishment
+Well-rounded
- Higher than average execution requirements

With speedy movement and a broad toolset, Sophitia can basically play however she wants while keeping the threat of very scary block and whiff punishment hovering over the opponent and kill them when they make a mistake.

Nightmare
+Huge range
+High damage
+Good ringouts
+Some armored moves
- Lacks the normal set of fast up close tools

A stance character that fights best at longer ranges, punishing people for trying to move in closer or disrespecting the space he controls. At closer ranges his armored moves can make him hard to engage as well. In SC6 he has a powerup mechanic that improves some of his moves.

Kilik
+Very good range
+Strong stances
+Good mixups
+Pretty safe
- Buttons are slower than average

Kilik is a well-rounded character that has strong mixups up close while also having powerful keepout/harassment tools at long ranges. His buttons are on the slow side, but he partially makes up for it by having some strong stances with automatic parries that discourage people swinging at him. In SC6 his Soul Charge is unique in that it drains his health in return for absurdly powerful offense.

Xianghua
+Fast movement
+Fast buttons
+Pretty good mixups
+Decent range and whiff punishment
- Below average damage

A fast character that can easily change ranges on the opponent, she can quickly get in and apply pressure or get out and whiff punish the things the opponent throws out to challenge her. Her damage is on the low side but she has an easy time hitting people.

Ivy
+Great range
+Strong throws
- High execution

A complicated character with high execution requirements, but once mastered she can bully people at ranges where they can't do much to challenge while up close her tools are still decent. In SC6 she gets a long range command throw, so that sounds fun and powerful.

Groh, I haven't seen enough of yet. He seems to have average speed and range and a twin blade stance with powerful mixups. In Soul Charge he gets pretty insane teleporting moves.

Zasalamel has only been in two games and honestly, I didn't play him much. I think he had above average range, below average speed, and strong guardbreaks and frametraps. I think one of his unique points was pulling the opponent back in for mixups, and it seems like in SC6 it will be like that as he has some sort of vacuum ability.

Geralt, I don't know anything about him yet.

I'll skip on unannounced characters for now, even though I'm ~100% certain some of them will make it in, like Taki or Maxi.

Tekken 7: Frame data for new players, part 3

On punishment

You're still new to Tekken, but you kind of understand frame data a bit. Then you hear some folks mention that certain moves are 'unsafe' or 'launch punishable'. What's that all about then?

You already know that when you block someone's move, you get to do stuff before them. Well, for some blocked moves that amount of time is so large that you can hit the opponent with a guaranteed move of your own before they can recover and block.

This is called punishing, and moves that can be punished are called unsafe.

Unsafe moves usually have great rewards when they hit, so if you can't punish such moves properly the risk-reward is very much in your opponent's favor.

Because this write-up turned out kinda super long again, here's the TLDR for folks who aren't about that:

If you block big dangerous moves (such as launchers), make sure you try to hit the opponent with a pretty fast move afterward and remember if it worked or not. 
If something worked, try to hit it every time you block that move. Don't let folks get away with unsafe shit.

Anyway learning to punish well in Tekken takes time, and it's something you pretty much will be improving on forever. But don't let that put you off, you can just start with the common stuff and add more things as needed. Even the best players in the world don't always punish perfectly, so it's not expected that you would.

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Punishing a move properly is essentially a three step process:
1. Recognizing the move you just blocked
2. Knowing what your character's best punish is for it
3. Executing that punish

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Recognizing the move you just blocked is pretty tough. Tekken has a lot of characters and each of them has a gigantic movelist. Your best bet is to focus on the essentials, the punishable tools each character uses the most. On top of that, many characters share certain basic design choices. Most hopkicks look similar and most of them are around -13 on block. Most power lows stagger on block, giving you time to do your strongest punish.

You don't need to know the specifics in these situations, just "Oh, that looks like a hopkick, guess it's time for the 13 frame punish".

Also it just comes with experience. I recommend getting into a habit of looking up the details of a certain move right after it gave you trouble in a match, one move at a time. It's manageable and gives you the feeling of looking for a productive answer to a recent problem, which is nice.

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Knowing what your character's best punish is for a move is also kinda tough. In essence you have to know your punish for every punishable move in game-- wait, don't run away in terror yet! There are ways to structure this and pare it down to the essentials.

The best and most reliable way to determine a punish for a move is to just go into practice mode, record the dummy to do the move and then block after, and then -you- block the move and try your punishes.

Since this takes time, sometimes it can be faster to just look at frame data to see how negative a move is.

You have to be careful though. Some moves can be less punishable at longer ranges, or spacing can make the move you have at that speed simply not reach. Leo's d/f+2 above is a good example of both. Up close it is -13, so you have time to hit her for free with any of your moves that are 13 frames or faster. At longer ranges it is only -12 and most 12 frame moves just don't reach that far, so it becomes safe in this way.

By contrast, her d/b+4 is -31 and she's locked into this huge stagger when you block it. 31 frames is enough for you to do basically any move you have and it will connect before she can block. Since it is a low, you'd be crouching when you block it so throw out the most powerful launcher you can do from crouching.

In any case if you want to know what punishers you have, going through the whole movelist and trying all the things would be an insane work burden. Luckily Tekken has some universal structure applied to its frame data, so it's advised to learn that and then take note of any applicable exceptions.

So, remember this:
When you block a move that is 0 to -9 frames on block, most characters can't do anything so that move is safe. You still have advantage of course, so use it to pressure them.
When you block a move that is -10, most characters get a jab punish for small but relevant damage and good advantage after, so moves of this caliber or worse are unsafe.
When it's -12 or -13, characters start to get punishes for significant damage and/or knockdown.
At -14, characters get mini-launches or strong hits into knockdown.
At -15 or more, most characters get a launch into a full combo so these moves are called launch punishable.

So, how do you find your character's punishes for those numbers? Either you spend a lot of time in training mode to try all the things, or you ask more experienced players of your character. Either in person or online. Communities like Tekkenzaibatsu, tekken reddit or the tekken players on neogaf or wherever can help you. There's also various FGC discords or twitter or youtube. Look around. Find folks to connect with. Doing everything on your own is inefficient and kinda awful.

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So lastly, executing your punish properly is just practice. Hop to it! Tekken has a pretty generous input buffer so anyone can learn to get the proper timing down with some practice. And if you mess up, don't worry. Everyone messes up at some point. Play it safe if you're not sure if you can do it, getting a weak punish but ending at advantage is sooooooo much better than failing at the perfect punish and eating a bunch of damage yourself.

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Well, that ends this three part series on frame data (and punishing). Congratulations and thank you for sticking with it for this long if you've managed to get this far. I hope you learned something, even if just a little bit.

But in the end these are all just words and the main thing is always to play more. Play and have fun.

Also feel free to contact me for some matches or if you'd like to see more words about a specific Tekken subject or you have trouble with something.

Eliza frame data

Top player Kane posted a document with early frame data findings for Eliza:

Eliza frame data.

Early and still in progress obviously.

Tekken 7: Frame data for new players, part 2

So you're still new to Tekken, but you know that time in a fighting game is measured in 'frames'. So then you hear the veterans talk about stuff being 'plus seven' or things being 'launch punishable' or 'unsafe' or whatnot, and you want to know what that noise is about. Alternatively, you just keep getting hit by stuff, it's like all your opponent's moves are faster than yours or something. What's going on?

Well, this here is another thing you don't need to learn if you don't want to. You can figure it out yourself by playing or in training mode just fine. This bit is harder than the last one so it's fine to duck out if your eyes start glazing over.

If you're like that, here's a TLDR guideline to consider and you can be happily on your way:

If you just got hit by something, don't just mindlessly attack again. 

Think about what to do. You can block, sidestep or backdash and choose the right time to go on the offense again.

Anyway if you're the sort of person who likes to look things up instead of doing everything by themselves, this might be useful to you. Right now I'll talk about frame advantage and disadvantage and then I'll finally go over punishment in part 3.

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So to explain what folks mean when something is 'plus seven' or 'minus twenty-three'..

Firstly, when you hit someone with a move in Tekken, aside from doing damage you usually end up at advantage. When your move is blocked you don't do damage and you usually end up at disadvantage.

"well what's the advantage then" you ask? The advantage is time.

When you hit someone, you can usually move before them. 

When one of your moves is blocked, they can usually move before you.

Cool. How much earlier/later? Time is expressed in frames, so a certain amount of frames then.

This d/f+2 apparently leaves you -7 when it is blocked and +4 when it hits

So if that specific punch is blocked, they can move 7 frames before you. If you hit with it instead, you can move 4 frames before them. I use 'move' here, but it's really 'do anything'.

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"I can move 4/60th of a second before them? Who cares? What is that even good for? "

Well, the move that hits earlier beats the one that comes out later. So starting earlier means your stuff is going to connect first and win.

d/f+3 is a faster move than d/f+2, faster by two frames

Imagine you just hit a guy with the d/f+2 mentioned above. You are now at advantage, and you can do stuff 4 frames before your opponent. So you do d/f+2 again and your opponent actually does a faster move, d/f+3. You're still going to win and hit him. Because you can start 4 frames earlier, and 17-4 is less than 15. And the move that hits the earliest wins.

If your frame advantage is large enough, it can even get to the point where scary slower moves like your launchers would come out earlier than (and thus beat) -any- move the opponent can do. This is an incredibly dangerous situation for them. If they attack in this situation, they will very probably lose. So are forced to respect your options.

Being able to do stuff before your opponent is very useful.  

Being at advantage is good and you can press on and try to put the hurt on your opponent. Being at disadvantage is kinda bad, and you should be mindful of how you proceed.

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Anyway the actual numbers are very hard to gauge by eye, so that's why it's useful that you can look stuff up on frame data pages like RBNorway.

Wait, d/f+3 gives me disadvantage on hit? Maybe I should be careful about what to do afterward.

Yeah, maybe you should. Not every move that hits gives you advantage. Not every move that is blocked leaves you at disadvantage. Some things are extremely disadvantageous and using them carelessly can lose you a game. So check the details on your moves and/or your opponent's.

Or just figure it out by playing, that's fine too. Don't worry about it. Having fun playing and improving is the most important.

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In part 3, the related but different subject of punishment.

Tekken 7: Frame data for new players

So you're a new player and you've picked up Tekken 7. You just started and the veterans start tossing all these weird numbers around, talking about frame data and linking to sites like RBNorway or Inatekken.

You take a look and are confronted by this shit:

"wtf this is like an accountancy PhD"

Sooo.. Do you need to learn all that by heart?

No. NO! Seriously, don't.

However, some of it can be useful to learn as needed.

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Soon after you start playing you're going to run into a situation where you are wondering how fast a certain move is. For example...  Well, fast moves beat slow moves, right? Because they hit earlier. If you start at the same time. 

What's your fastest move? What's your fastest mid-hitting move? How fast is u/f+3, this spinning kick thing you like to use a lot? Those are useful things to know.

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Frame data can be a tool to help you with this. Time in fighting games is measured in 'frames' and there are 60 frames in a second. So 'how fast' is that move you just did? Well, it can be expressed in a certain number of frames.

Start up frames are a measure of the time from the start of a move until it hits.

That jab there has 10 start up frames. It takes 10 frames for this jab to hit, so 10/60th of a second.

As a new player, all you should care about is that this is a more useful and precise way to talk about speed than nonspecific stuff like 'pretty fast i guess'.

"This move is 10 frames which means it is faster than some other move which is 15 frames. If you start both at the same time, the 10 frame one will connect first."

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That is all. It's not too hard to understand, right? Time is best expressed in numbers, and frame data is those numbers for a fighting game.

Still, you don't need to learn frame data if you don't want to. You can figure out which moves are fast or slow by just playing, by trial and error. Or you can look at the actual numbers from time to time, as needed. Either way, you'll be okay.

Some more Eliza footage

Playstation Underground did a preview of Tekken 7, and some more Eliza footage was shown.

Not too much new stuff, but here are some observations:
-d+4(?) staggers on block
-d+3 is very evasive in this build, it crushed Paul's shredders (6:52)
-Her f,d,d/f+1 light DP traded with a low wakeup kick (5:24). I'm starting to doubt whether this version of it is invincible.
-Her d+1 crouch jab is cancellable, which seems great. Though d+1 into light DP did not combo, alas.

Eliza overview

Tekken 7's Eliza was demonstrated during Tekken Talk, from which we can extract a preliminary movelist and some combos and stuff. I can't be sure of all the inputs yet, so some guesses will be tagged with a question mark.

But first, some general remarks on Eliza.
-Just like Akuma, Eliza has a super meter. It's made up of two bars. She can spend two bars to use her super, or spend one bar to use powerful EX moves. She gains meter when hitting the opponent (also if they block), when she takes damage, or when she's sleeping.
-By holding down for a while or automatically after certain moves, Eliza can sleep. She gains meter while sleeping but is completely vulnerable. Cancelling sleep is quick.
-Like Akuma, Eliza has special moves performed with traditional motions like quarter circle forward or back. Some of her normal moves can be cancelled into these special moves, bypassing the recovery frames.
-Eliza can jump. Landing a jumping attack can get you a full combo.
-Eliza's backdash is terrible. It covers an extremely short distance.
-Eliza has a Rage Art, but no Rage Drive.

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Eliza preliminary command list:

b+3+4 - h(?) - Rage Art

Special moves:
qcf+1 - a stationary ground fireball
qcf+2 - a moving ground fireball
qcf+1+2 - EX fireball, costs 1 bar, looks like Geese Howard's Double Reppuuken
f,d,d/f+1 - light uppercut. You can combo after it. We don't know if it's invincible or not.
f,d,d/f+2 - heavy uppercut, three hits. No combos afterward. We don't know if it's invincible or not.
qcb+1 - light claw slash. It Screws, very useful for combos.
qcb+2 - heavy claw slash. Combo ender?
qcb+1+2 - EX claw slash, two hits, breaks the wall.
jumping qcb+3 - shallow divekick
jumping qcb+4 - steep divekick
jumping qcb+3+4 - EX divekick, two hits, second hit Screws.
qcfx2+1+2 - Super
 
1,2,4 - h,h,h - the first hit is cancellable, the last hit Screws.
1,2,3 - h,h,m - the last hit launches(?)
2,2 - h,h - cancellable
4 - h - Homing, Screw, instant screws on CH.
f+4 - Moon Glide Stance. A forward moving stance with several follow-ups.
f,d,d/f+3+4 - EX Moon Glide. Costs 1 bar. You can cancel any fireball into this move, but otherwise it is the same as normal Moon Glide.
MGS 1,2,1+2 - h(?),h,m - good combo ender.
MGS 2 - m - big mid punch, huge pushback, on hit Eliza goes to Sleep.
MGS 3,4 - First hit Homing, second hit Screw.
MGS 4 - l - a low slide.
f+1+2 - m - Power crush, Homing, wallbreak.
f,f+4,2 - h(?), m - First hit launches, second hit bounds only if the first hit connects, cancellable. Great range, TJ(?).
f,f,f+1 - h(?) - Screw.
f,f,f+3 -  m - running slash kick.
d/f+1,2,4(?) - Like 1,2,4 but starts with a mid.
d/f+2,3 - m,m - NC, launches.
d+3 - l - cancellable. Good range, TC(?). Can start a combo by cancelling into f,d,d/f+1, but it was very inconsistent in the demonstration.
d+4(?) - l - a sweep, launches on CH.
b+3(?) - Slow Homing move, TJ(?).
b+4 - m - cancellable knee.
b+2,3 - h,m
?? - a backswing blow that knocks down
?? - the second hit of d/f+2,3 used alone
?? - a hip check that knocks down
?? - advancing mid kick, strong advantage on CH(?), cancellable(?)
WS 1 - m - cancellable
WS 2 - m - knocks down
WS 3 - launches.
jumping 1
jumping 2 - combo starter
jumping 4 - combo starter
(when down, face up) 1+2 - "Endless Sleep"
2+3+4 - Taunt?
3,1,4,1,2,2,4,2,1,2 - 10-hit combo
1+3, 2+4 - throws
d/f+1+2 - command throw

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Eliza sample combos:
jumping 4, 1, f,d,d/f+2
WS 3, 1,2,4 s! d+3 qcb+2
WS1 f,d,d/f+1 b+2,3 2,2 qcb+1 s! f +4~2
f,f+4,2 qcf+1 f,d,d/f+3+4~3,4 s! jumping 2 RA
jumping 2, b+4 Super f,f,f+1 s! jumping qcb+4, 1 f+4~1,2,1+2

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Early analysis:
Without knowing how punishable her specials and normals are and if she can get a consistent combo off her low, it's hard to tell how dangerous Eliza will be. In most things she resembles Akuma, so dangerous but unsafe 50/50s, presumably great punishment especially with meter, a hopefully invincible DP, huge damage output and an unusual movement option in jumping that is pretty hard for people to adjust to.

Eliza lacks a few of Akuma's strong tools. She doesn't have an air fireball or an air homing move, she doesn't have his demon flip so of course no demon flip into throw either. She doesn't have FADC, though EX Moon Glide can substitute for Hadouken FADC at least. Her fireball seems slower. Her weak backdash means she will have a hard time with defensive movement.

On the plus side it looks like she can combo off her light DP without meter, which seems incredibly powerful. Her divekick seems better than Akuma's. Moon Glide is a fast offensive movement option. She seems to have some longer ranged moves compared to Akuma as well.

On the whole, I can't wait to play around with her in training mode. I'm so hyped!

ONE MORE MONTH