Lili's df3+4 flip is very powerful. It has good range, lowcrushes and launches on hit. On block she ends up in back-turned at distance 0-1 and, depending on spacing, at anything from minor advantage to minor disadvantage.
Here are her common options after it, followed by my suggestions for what to do after you block a flip:
- d1: The most common option. Fast, highcrushes, can catch people trying to step. Also picks up the combo on hit. If i recall correctly, d4 also picks up the combo in T7 so it will serve the same function.
- ~db: The safe option. Depending on spacing there may not be much you can do. ~db ~WS2 is dangerous and can launch you for trying to push buttons after blocking a flip.
- 1 or 1,2: Fast highs with good range. Can also pick up the combo on hit.
- d3+4: long range unsafe low. Is homing in T7.
- 1+2 or 2: fast safe mid launcher/CH launcher. Try not to get hit by this.
So in general, in back-turned she has dangerous safe mids, weak lows and not the best tracking.
So good options do do after blocking a flip are, in my opinion:
-backdash: It avoids many options including the single most common one and you can do a strong punish. d3+4 will chase you down but you won't die from it.
-block: Her BT mixup is weak because her lows are not threatening. Block the BT move, you'll have advantage and then you can swing at her.
-hopkick (or orbital): It destroys the most common option and will force them to rethink what they're doing because of the damage. If you have a strong hopkick it will even chase down the ~db option and make them really sad. This will lose to 1 or 1,2 though.
You can also sidestep, it beats quite a few options. Down jab will interrupt quite a few options as well. Don't do jabs after blocking a flip, they lose to almost everything. If you must swing at it, do a fast mid or hopkick or down jab.
Hope it helps.
Friday, April 14, 2017
Thursday, April 13, 2017
On tierlists, an argument made in jest
Following an earlier discussion, I felt I should properly elucidate my earlier position on tier lists. By playing Devil's Advocate lol.
I don't think it's entirely water-tight to be honest. Made some logic jumps so I actually changed my mind on it (see post script) but I think I have a pretty decent argument here. Refute me, dear readers, find the faults. All in good fun, of course.
---
A tier list, in fighting games, is a ordered list of most or all the characters in a certain game, ordered by character strength. By character strength, we mean the ability for a certain character to win. So a tier list is a certain person's opinion on which characters in a fighting game have overall the best chances to win.
Now:
1. People choose their own character in a fighting game for a variety of reasons, all of which are equally valid.
1a. Some people primarily choose their character because of their ability to win.
1b. Other considerations may still factor into the decision, one can choose a character that has the ability to win AND looks appealing to you for example.
1c. Conversely, some people primarily choose their character for reasons other than them being able to win. Aesthetic considerations, such as the fighter's looks or personality may be most important to these people. Or perhaps they don't care much about winning, or have a poor understanding of what makes a character powerful.
2. People as in (1c) evaluate characters primarily on attributes irrelevant to winning.
2a. As such, their tier lists will less objectively list characters ordered by the ability to win.
2b. As such, their tier lists are of lesser value to a discussion about character strength.
3. (Non-matchup) Tier lists normally include the author's own character.
If the author's own character is not in the top group of their tier list, it stands to reason to then ask "Why did you pick a character you think is weak? Why don't you play these characters that you say are stronger?"
In my opinion, the reasons for a situation such as this are:
- When evaluating characters, the author does not primarily care about their ability to win. In this case, their tier list is of low value.
- The author cares primarily about a character's ability to win, but he picked a weaker character anyway. That's dumb. Tier lists from dumb people are of low value.
- The author is duplicitous. While they care primarily about a character's ability to win and they secretly believe their character to give them the best chance of winning, their tier list does not bear this out.* A dishonest tier list is also of low value.
*This is commonly known as 'down-playing'. The reasons for this may include a need to make themselves out to be a better player for supposedly doing so well with a weaker character, or a fear of their character getting nerfed in a patch if they admit their strength.
Conclusion
The position of the author's own character in a tier list can give the reader information about the validity of the tier list as a whole. If their own character is low on the list, in my opinion that list is rarely worth paying attention to.
Recommendation
Downplaying is a plague that makes tier lists virtually useless. Be honest about your character instead.
Post Script
Honestly, my current position could more fairly be stated as
1. Tournament players care about winning
2. As such, their character choice is strongly influenced by that character's chance to win
3. If by their own admission in their own tier list someone is playing a weak character, they may be downplaying or just an idiot
4. Downplaying reduces the value of a tier list, because it is then an ordered list in the incorrect order. How can you know any of it is right?
5. Being an idiot also reduces the value of your tier list. Idiots might be right sometimes but you can't depend on it, you know =P
Conclusion: If someone's character is low on their tier list, approach said list with caution and a pinch of salt.
This I actually stand by, no problem.
I don't think it's entirely water-tight to be honest. Made some logic jumps so I actually changed my mind on it (see post script) but I think I have a pretty decent argument here. Refute me, dear readers, find the faults. All in good fun, of course.
---
A tier list, in fighting games, is a ordered list of most or all the characters in a certain game, ordered by character strength. By character strength, we mean the ability for a certain character to win. So a tier list is a certain person's opinion on which characters in a fighting game have overall the best chances to win.
Now:
1. People choose their own character in a fighting game for a variety of reasons, all of which are equally valid.
1a. Some people primarily choose their character because of their ability to win.
1b. Other considerations may still factor into the decision, one can choose a character that has the ability to win AND looks appealing to you for example.
1c. Conversely, some people primarily choose their character for reasons other than them being able to win. Aesthetic considerations, such as the fighter's looks or personality may be most important to these people. Or perhaps they don't care much about winning, or have a poor understanding of what makes a character powerful.
2. People as in (1c) evaluate characters primarily on attributes irrelevant to winning.
2a. As such, their tier lists will less objectively list characters ordered by the ability to win.
2b. As such, their tier lists are of lesser value to a discussion about character strength.
3. (Non-matchup) Tier lists normally include the author's own character.
If the author's own character is not in the top group of their tier list, it stands to reason to then ask "Why did you pick a character you think is weak? Why don't you play these characters that you say are stronger?"
In my opinion, the reasons for a situation such as this are:
- When evaluating characters, the author does not primarily care about their ability to win. In this case, their tier list is of low value.
- The author cares primarily about a character's ability to win, but he picked a weaker character anyway. That's dumb. Tier lists from dumb people are of low value.
- The author is duplicitous. While they care primarily about a character's ability to win and they secretly believe their character to give them the best chance of winning, their tier list does not bear this out.* A dishonest tier list is also of low value.
*This is commonly known as 'down-playing'. The reasons for this may include a need to make themselves out to be a better player for supposedly doing so well with a weaker character, or a fear of their character getting nerfed in a patch if they admit their strength.
Conclusion
The position of the author's own character in a tier list can give the reader information about the validity of the tier list as a whole. If their own character is low on the list, in my opinion that list is rarely worth paying attention to.
Recommendation
Downplaying is a plague that makes tier lists virtually useless. Be honest about your character instead.
Post Script
Honestly, my current position could more fairly be stated as
1. Tournament players care about winning
2. As such, their character choice is strongly influenced by that character's chance to win
3. If by their own admission in their own tier list someone is playing a weak character, they may be downplaying or just an idiot
4. Downplaying reduces the value of a tier list, because it is then an ordered list in the incorrect order. How can you know any of it is right?
5. Being an idiot also reduces the value of your tier list. Idiots might be right sometimes but you can't depend on it, you know =P
Conclusion: If someone's character is low on their tier list, approach said list with caution and a pinch of salt.
This I actually stand by, no problem.
Sunday, March 12, 2017
Tekken 7 pre-release events in Europe
Bandai Namco has decided to finally do some Tekken 7 events in Europe. So far, sadly nothing has been announced for the Netherlands (or Germany).
See below for all the info. It looks like the UK is getting multiple tournaments culminating in a sort of pre-release championship, while the France + 1 Belgium events are 'previews'. Unsure what that means. I hope they'll do one in the Netherlands too, maybe Dutch Comic Con would be a good place for it? But i'll probably try to attend the one in Belgium in any case. Gent isn't that far and perhaps they'll have some kind of competition format anyway.
See below for all the info. It looks like the UK is getting multiple tournaments culminating in a sort of pre-release championship, while the France + 1 Belgium events are 'previews'. Unsure what that means. I hope they'll do one in the Netherlands too, maybe Dutch Comic Con would be a good place for it? But i'll probably try to attend the one in Belgium in any case. Gent isn't that far and perhaps they'll have some kind of competition format anyway.
Friday, February 10, 2017
EU TekkenGAF stream
Got together with the NeoGAF guys and played a bunch of Tekken.
EU Tekkengaf stream.
Surprised at how well i did with Raven. A lot better than even with Alisa and Lili. Perhaps i should focus on that character and make everyone else secondary.
Thursday, February 9, 2017
New SFV character: Kolin
As everybody predicted, Street Fighter V's new character is the Russian ice lady from story mode. Her toolset looks pretty interested so I'll definitely at least try her out. So far I've not found a character in SF5 that really agrees with me, perhaps this time it will work out.
From the trailer, she has:
- Her v-reversal is a roll that goes through the opponent. Follows up with a throw, not sure if canned or a normal one.
- lp mp hp looks like a target combo, much like Ibuki's.
- EX punchy special is special cancellable or something. One time she goes into EX snowballs, and another she does this backtwirl special and then jump cancels it? This all seems pretty unusual. The EX version of the twirl into dash goes through fireballs too. Definitely some moves to investigate thoroughly, they seem complicated.
- She seems to have some fun counters. I think it's her v-skill, if hit with something while it comes out it goes into canned throw animations.
- She has an air special move that makes her double jump.
- She has some kind of ice projectile that comes from above, mostly seems strong for okizeme.
Pretty hard to determine her gameplan from this information. She obviously has some mobility tools to help her get around zoning. When inside, she presumably does the whole frametrap/throw game because.. that's how SF5 is. On defense and while playing footsies, she adds counters to the usual proceedings to discourage folks from throwing things out. Might be able to juke out of things with her mobility tools too.
Pretty unusual toolset. Interested to see how it works out.
----
11/2 Edit: Capcom uploaded her movelist.
Monday, January 30, 2017
Core-A Gaming: Why Buffs are better than Nerfs
Great video from Core-A Gaming, and one I very much agree with.
I think the essence of playing a fighting game is to find cool/strong stuff for the character you like, and then try to get away with imposing it on your opponent. Whenever a character gets buffed they're adding more fun things to do, especially if it's actual new moves and such. Conversely, whenever someone gets nerfed it's almost like they're taking away actual content. The adjustment period you will need to take is a poor substitute, because being forced to practice using lesser tools is just not all that enjoyable.
I think the best approach is taken in games that give every character extremely strong tools, but then make sure there are powerful generic defensive options on top of that.
Wednesday, January 25, 2017
Tekken 7 Eliza trailer analysis
So after Eliza was announced as a preorder bonus character for Tekken 7 on monday, yesterday we got her trailer at the EVO games announcement stream.
I'm really excited for her inclusion, so here's some analysis on how her moves changed from TR/are now. Of course this is all speculation from a limited source, so don't sue me when i get something wrong.
Firstly, her moveset looks very different overall. Much like Akuma, Eliza gets a 2D game style jump and a super meter. And most of her returning moves seem to be revamped. In the trailer I see:
00:27 df2,3 1,2,4 s! qcf2
-df2 used to be a safe 15f counterhit launcher, this looks to be a two hit normal hit launcher? Good buff if so, especially if the df2 still works on its own as well. Recovery on the 3 looks long, probably punishable.
-Second part kinda looks like df1,2,4 which would be weird since df1 didn't have followups. Going with 1,2,4 for now. The 4 screws, no big surprise there.
-Her qcf2 fireball is A LOT faster than before. You used to be able to go into moon glide after it and get a combo, but it looks like now you need meter to do it. Probably the price to pay for the fireball being actually usable.
00:32 She gets a stationary fireball too, probably qcf1?
00:34 A new Sleep mode, but on the ground this time? The old Sleep would give you a followup to glide 1,2 and s-l-o-w-l-y regenerate your health.
00:37 f+1+2 is a homing power crush that wallsplats. Looks faster than the old one, which was a very slow homing move that knocked away very far on normal hit, launched on counterhit and was punishable on block. It had some highcrush properties on the later frames.
Followup with b1,2,4 which is her standard wall ender.
00:45 Jump-in 4, 1, cancel into new rising claw special
-Like Akuma, she can get combos off jump-ins.
-1 is cancellable by special moves, like Akuma. Strong buff for her 10 frame punisher, it used to be only a weak 1,2.
-The rising claw looks like a dragon punch, probably f,d,df2? Three hits, no idea if it's invincible or not.
00:48 Jump-in 2, a new knee, cancel into a one hit rising claw, pickup with d3, cancel into a new claw slash special move that screws, glide 2
-She totally crushes a mid with that jump-in.
-New knee looks like uf4 but isn't, it's not as high off the ground. Hope it doesn't replace her generic df4 because that would be missed. It cancels into what's probably f,d,df1.
-Getting a pickup after is pretty sick. With d3 being special cancellable it means her low game, which was incredible poor before, is now probably pretty dangerous.
-The claw slash smells like a qcb1. It screws! Neat!
00:52 It's her 1 throw with a new takedown animation.
00:56 A shallow angle divekick with 3! It knocks down. Maybe only on counterhit? Seems like a strong tool.
00:58 A low out of glide, that's great. Glide 4 probably. It knocks down as well.
00:59 EX divekick from the ground, what?! Looks like an automatic followup kick that screws, then a new hip check move to end the combo.
01:01 uf4,2 cancel into qcf1, cancel into EX glide, new spinkicks out of glide that screw, dash EX fireball
-uf4,2 looks the same. It still bounds. Cancels into specials (or just fireball?) now rather than being a canned followup.
-Suddenly EX glide. f3+4 for the command perhaps? Normal glide is f4. This seems to be how you followup fireball now, only with meter.
-New spinkicks out of glide. Glide 3,4 perhaps? Is a homing move, looks like a high.
-EX fireball is Geese's double reppuuken. Sick.
01:11 ws1 cancel into EX claw slash, wall break, steep angle divekick with 4, new 3,1 string that screws, dash, new knee move cancel into divekick with 3.
-So she has two divekicks, a shallow and a steep one.
-New 3,1 string is good. Standing 3 was useless before.
01:18 It's her old invincible move, b3. Now just a lowcrushing long ranged homing move it looks like.
01:19 Giant reppuuken, dash, another new screw move, divekick, new 222 string
-This looks like her super. It's a lot like her old slow unblockable qcf1+2 fireball in that it launched up like that. Doubt it's unblockable though.
-Another screw move. Okay. I'll take it.
-Divekick comes out of a forward jump here it looks like? So not just a grounded special that backjumps for you, as could be concluded from earlier instances.
01:32 It's her Rage Art. Comes out of a flying knee, looks like she has good range on it.
In all, tons of changes on Eliza. She's basically an entirely new (and probably stronger) character and i can't wait to try her out.
I'm really excited for her inclusion, so here's some analysis on how her moves changed from TR/are now. Of course this is all speculation from a limited source, so don't sue me when i get something wrong.
Firstly, her moveset looks very different overall. Much like Akuma, Eliza gets a 2D game style jump and a super meter. And most of her returning moves seem to be revamped. In the trailer I see:
00:27 df2,3 1,2,4 s! qcf2
-df2 used to be a safe 15f counterhit launcher, this looks to be a two hit normal hit launcher? Good buff if so, especially if the df2 still works on its own as well. Recovery on the 3 looks long, probably punishable.
-Second part kinda looks like df1,2,4 which would be weird since df1 didn't have followups. Going with 1,2,4 for now. The 4 screws, no big surprise there.
-Her qcf2 fireball is A LOT faster than before. You used to be able to go into moon glide after it and get a combo, but it looks like now you need meter to do it. Probably the price to pay for the fireball being actually usable.
00:32 She gets a stationary fireball too, probably qcf1?
00:34 A new Sleep mode, but on the ground this time? The old Sleep would give you a followup to glide 1,2 and s-l-o-w-l-y regenerate your health.
00:37 f+1+2 is a homing power crush that wallsplats. Looks faster than the old one, which was a very slow homing move that knocked away very far on normal hit, launched on counterhit and was punishable on block. It had some highcrush properties on the later frames.
Followup with b1,2,4 which is her standard wall ender.
00:45 Jump-in 4, 1, cancel into new rising claw special
-Like Akuma, she can get combos off jump-ins.
-1 is cancellable by special moves, like Akuma. Strong buff for her 10 frame punisher, it used to be only a weak 1,2.
-The rising claw looks like a dragon punch, probably f,d,df2? Three hits, no idea if it's invincible or not.
00:48 Jump-in 2, a new knee, cancel into a one hit rising claw, pickup with d3, cancel into a new claw slash special move that screws, glide 2
-She totally crushes a mid with that jump-in.
-New knee looks like uf4 but isn't, it's not as high off the ground. Hope it doesn't replace her generic df4 because that would be missed. It cancels into what's probably f,d,df1.
-Getting a pickup after is pretty sick. With d3 being special cancellable it means her low game, which was incredible poor before, is now probably pretty dangerous.
-The claw slash smells like a qcb1. It screws! Neat!
00:52 It's her 1 throw with a new takedown animation.
00:56 A shallow angle divekick with 3! It knocks down. Maybe only on counterhit? Seems like a strong tool.
00:58 A low out of glide, that's great. Glide 4 probably. It knocks down as well.
00:59 EX divekick from the ground, what?! Looks like an automatic followup kick that screws, then a new hip check move to end the combo.
01:01 uf4,2 cancel into qcf1, cancel into EX glide, new spinkicks out of glide that screw, dash EX fireball
-uf4,2 looks the same. It still bounds. Cancels into specials (or just fireball?) now rather than being a canned followup.
-Suddenly EX glide. f3+4 for the command perhaps? Normal glide is f4. This seems to be how you followup fireball now, only with meter.
-New spinkicks out of glide. Glide 3,4 perhaps? Is a homing move, looks like a high.
-EX fireball is Geese's double reppuuken. Sick.
01:11 ws1 cancel into EX claw slash, wall break, steep angle divekick with 4, new 3,1 string that screws, dash, new knee move cancel into divekick with 3.
-So she has two divekicks, a shallow and a steep one.
-New 3,1 string is good. Standing 3 was useless before.
01:18 It's her old invincible move, b3. Now just a lowcrushing long ranged homing move it looks like.
01:19 Giant reppuuken, dash, another new screw move, divekick, new 222 string
-This looks like her super. It's a lot like her old slow unblockable qcf1+2 fireball in that it launched up like that. Doubt it's unblockable though.
-Another screw move. Okay. I'll take it.
-Divekick comes out of a forward jump here it looks like? So not just a grounded special that backjumps for you, as could be concluded from earlier instances.
01:32 It's her Rage Art. Comes out of a flying knee, looks like she has good range on it.
In all, tons of changes on Eliza. She's basically an entirely new (and probably stronger) character and i can't wait to try her out.
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